DONE!!TRANS NEEDED Husky/Collie X Columbia,TN-W.Milford NJ

[echo0195]

If one of you dear pilots could help save this beautiful girl by getting her out of a high-kill shelter and into a loving foster home, we would be so overjoyed. I have been trying to get this transport filled with no such luck. This girl deserves a better life and you can give that to her.

Details below:

SWEETHEART COMING FROM HIGH-KILL SHELTER TO APPROVED FOSTER HOME

PERMISSION TO CROSSPOST WIDELY!!

Sweetheart is Coming from:

City of Columbia - Maury County Animal Services Facility
http://www.petfinder.com/shelters/TN51.html
Location: Columbia, TN


Sweetheart is Going To:

The Last Resort, West Milford NJ
http://thelastresortrescue.com/


Transport Coordinator:
Samantha Grieves
email: echo0195@gmail.com
Cell phone: 862-881-0568


IF YOU CAN HELP PLEASE FILL IN INFORMATION AND REPLY TO COORDINATOR

PLEASE CONTACT SAMANTHA DIRECTLY AND PROVIDE INFO BELOW

Name
Address
City/State
Home #
Cell #
Email
Emergency Contact phone #


Passenger:

1. Sweetheart - Husky/Collie mix~4 yrs, spayed female, UTD


Uncrated furkids = 1 medium

All Animals are altered, UTD, will travel with shelter paperwork, food, water, bowls, collars and leashes! Crates are provided by pilot if pilot prefers to use them.




Passenger #1: Sweetheart
Breed: Husky/Collie Mix
Color: Black & White
Sex: Female
Age: 4 years old
Weight: 50 lbs
Altered: yes
Crate: no
Leash/Collar: will be provided by sending shelter
Vaccinations: UTD
Health Issues: none known
Behavior Issues: none known

[Michele]

This would be a couple legs. I can get her from Westminster, MD (KDMW) to West Milford (4N1). I'll do some flight planning tonight and propose a route.

[Jon]

Michelle,

I looked at this. My plane is in annual right now, but will be done after this weekend.

The pup is west of Nashville so I would have to deadhead there. From there to KMDW is about 540 miles. 156 to Maury County from KTYS and 402 back from Westminster to KTYS. I would surmise based on the fact it is a single pup that a ground transport may be a better option. I hate to say that, but just my legs of the transport would eat up $600 in fuel alone, and the leg to and from NJ would be on top of that.

I often try to mitigate the expense per animal by seeing if there is any way to get a plane full of pups to justify the trip?

Echo195??????

[Michele]

I was hoping to draw some more pilots into our madness. I think anyone would be happy to do 1.5 hour legs (3 hours roundtrip). I've flown a few 7+ hour days doing this, and from experience I can tell you that's too much for one person.

[Jon]

Virtually all of my flights have been part of 7 to 8 hour days. But to put it in perspective the plane is comfortable, air conditioned and I relax when I fly so for me it is a peaceful way to spend a day. I also am getting some "bang" for my buck because I try my hardest to fill the plane, even if I have to make a few stops along the way.

As a practical matter I am concerned that if we fall into the trap of creating the impression that legs should be 1 or 2 hours we are going to have even more difficulty in arranging transports than for ground transports because of varying degrees of pilot willingness to fly in different weather conditions. While I have no problem loading up a bunch of pups and heading out to meet a pilot at another airport, what happens if the weather does not follow the forecast and all of a sudden I have no way of being notified the pilot meeting me cannot get in due to weather that has gone below his minimums? I cannot receive or make cell phone calls once airborne.

I remember one day when the forecast and current conditions for my destination were above VFR minimums and improving. All along the route the metars were good, right up until I got within 30 miles and was expecting a visual approach. From that point on the weather not only went below VFR minimums, it went almost below IFR minimums. My point is that it we are to do long transports to eliminate the need for muiltiple leg ground transports, we shouldn't set up a transport whose being is fragile because our aviation transport has multiple legs. That is why I will do a 500+ NM flight.

I am going to add this to the list of topics Deb and I will discuss Saturday. We do not want to interfere with anyone who is doing a transport or who is setting one up, but we also have to recognize that the smallest plane with the least weather capability becomes the controlling factor in all multiple leg transports. Right now I have no opinion on what impact that has on them.

[Steve Foley]

This makes for an interesting dilemma. Now remember, I've only flown one rescue, but if that flight was for a $100 hamburger, I would have aborted due to weather. Clouds were 1300 feet AGL, and I'm not instrument rated. I ended up flying around it I could see it was clear to the north, so I had an out. I know Michele was already in the air, so I knew aborting would leave her hanging.

A three hour day of flying is pretty much my limit. Remember, I'm hand-flying a Cherokee 140. That three hour flight took me from 9 am to 4 pm. Driving to the airport, remove seats, preflight, fly, transfer, fly, transfer, fly, tie-down, reinstall seats, driving home.

I don't know what the answer is. It really depends on the capabilities of the pilot and the plane. I am looking at a request for Maine to Mass, but it will be about five hours of flying. That's a lot of flying to get one dog 1/3 of the way home.

Something else that really needs to be discussed is the role and the limits of the Pilots N Paws organization itself. I was under the impression it was simply a point of contact between rescuers and pilots. Unfortunately, each transport seems to take a lot more coordination than I originally thought. I felt bad that I had to back away from helping return the stolen GSD (Heidi?) to Colorado, but I really felt that I could not continue at the level of participation I was at.

Like I said, I don't know what the answer is, and I don't even know what the question is. Just some food for thought.

[Debi]

Something else that really needs to be discussed is the role and the limits of the Pilots N Paws organization itself. I was under the impression it was simply a point of contact between rescuers and pilots. Unfortunately, each transport seems to take a lot more coordination than I originally thought. I felt bad that I had to back away from helping return the stolen GSD (Heidi?) to Colorado, but I really felt that I could not continue at the level of participation I was at.
Like I said, I don't know what the answer is, and I don't even know what the question is. Just some food for thought.

Steve, more food for thought is good...it is how we come up with various ideas. You are correct, Pilots-N-Paws was established to be a contact point between rescuers and pilots. I still view it as that. Having said that, if there are pilots here who want to work together that is totally up to them. They do need to realize that it is much more complicated to do multi-leg flights and also recognize that the rescue folks do not know the in's and out's of what a pilot goes through on these flights. So when a longer distance request is made, please do not feel bad that you cannot participate. We each do what we can, that's it!

Regarding longer distances, here is my belief. I personally would not like to see more then two pilots ever involved with a flight in one day. That can even be stretching it when the weather turns bad quickly. I also believe that those of us in rescue need to have a back-up plan for these pups for a multi-leg flight....i.e..they need to have a temporary foster person set up for the first destination/hand-off point just in case there is a problem with the second pilot not being able to arrive. No pilot should ever be in a position where they are solely responsible for the animals they are flying should the second pilot run into a snag. My word to pilots would be if they choose to be involved in a multi-leg flight, they should insist that a temp foster contact person be available at each location if need be. This should lighten some of the stress!

Another option is for a pilot to work with a couple local rescues who have established a repoire with another rescue or shelter out of their state. This way, you can fly several animals at once and as Jon stated, you can justify your expenses more that way. For example, there is a ground transport that heads from Greenville, SC to NJ every two weeks. A Local pilot good fly all these pups to hand off to ground transport location in northern VA. This could essentially become a regular route for this pilot whenever he/she chose to participate. My area is not the only area who has regular routes like this. Hopefully establishing a charitable venue for PNP will give something back to the pilots as well.

This group remains a place for rescues and pilots to work together and make their own choices regarding what flights they choose to participate in. You should never feel pressured into flying a route when you have hesitation. More food for thought

Debi

[Jon]

I have not yet teamed up with another pilot to do a transport because I guess I just thought it would be easier and more likely the trip would have less potential for problems.

My longest leg has been 560 NM (nautical miles), and my longest day involved 8.5 hours of engine running time.

I can fully understand however if any pilot wants to limit a flight to a few hours of air time or to a fewer number of miles. As pilots we all have to deal with weather we are comfortable flying in, we all have to be comfortable handling the cost of what we are doing, and we all have to understand that every one of us has limitations, not only for the plane but ourselves.

This topic is going to get a lot of discussion, and all I can say is that when a multi leg transport is required, only the pilots and rescues involved should be a part of the planning and discussion, and there must be plans for dealing with the animals if there is a break in the chain.

[Michele]

Just in case there's no one who wants to do a one-way 6.5 hour trip, here's a suggested route with 4 legs

[Jon]

I think this has hit upon one of the limitations of GA. It is difficult for me to say no to reasonable requests and for the rescues reading these posts here is a sad situation that really shows one of our weaknesses.

The comments I make are relating to my plane, and my not be completely accurate for all planes, but it is an example I can offer. The direct great circle route between Maury County in TN (KMRC) and W. Milford (4N1) is about 690 nautical miles (NM). In aviation we use knots for speed and nautical miles so to convert to statute miles add 15%.

With the average winds aloft this time of the year that is a 4 hour (or less) non-stop flight in my plane. It is my absolute personal limit because I will not fly beyond 4 hours because I have to pee, and my plane is at the limit of my fuel burn. I want to have options so I land with just under two hours of fuel remaining. If the winds on the day of the flight will not cooperate, the leg with the pup will exceed four hours and now I have a problem. I will have to stop adding at least 45 minutes to the leg time and making the flight even more expensive. I am also very reluctant to walk a dog during a stop for fuel because airport ramps are not pet friendly.

That introduces my real concern which has not really yet been addressed on the forum. Flight time is expensive. It is safe to say my direct and indirect costs when expressed per hour of flight time are over $200 an hour (my wife may read this so don't ask for my real costs ) for every hour the propeller turns. My fuel burn alone is 15 gallons per hour and at the $5.00 per gallon or more that is a big part of the total cost. Because the return flight is against the winds, I will not only spend more time in the air returning, I will require a stop adding to both cost and time. This would be to fly a single pup. I have looked at the pictures of the pup and it hurts to see pups like this in danger and distress, but for the same time and money I might be able to save seven to fourteen dogs because lately I have been filling the cabin. Using multiple dogs as my target passengers, I can justify some long flying days because the cost on a per dog basis becomes more reasonable.

Whether I did a flight like this alone, or if several pilots set up a relay this rescue flight is going to take a lot of time and be very expensive. I have had a request to fly a pup from Chattanooga (KCHA) to Philly (KPHL) so that trip could be split between two pups, but it would entail a deadhead to KCHA, from there to KMRC, then on to KPHL, and finally to 4N1. I get worn out just thinking of that, even though I know I have some flights of that nature in the near future scheduled, the number of dogs rescued is going to be much greater than one or two.

If anyone has any comments or suggestions perhaps we can move this to its own thread and kick it around.